Real Estate & Investment Roundtable

So, Vincenza, would you like to introduce yourself and your law firm and perhaps say a little bit about your background? >> Yeah. Yeah. With a pleasure. I am Vincenzo Yagawati and I am an equity partner of Tonian Partners that is an Italian law firm that is established principally in Italy in Rome, Milan and Pada and I’m also in Trieste and in a in a very short time also in lecture in Korea and we have two other seeds abroad one in Tan Ghana in Albania and one in

Romania in Bucharest. my my practice areas are fundamentally two. one is real estate. I am involved in in several deals that regarding a lot of times building in residential but but we have more opportunities in logistic and light industrial and commercial and in luxury and the commercial international agreements.

Our law firm is was was established in more than 30 years old and has a lot of practice areas as is very very usual in in this kind of of law firm that are more structured. >> Thank you very much. so happy that you’re joining us today, Spanos.

>> Okay. nice to meet you too. I’m not sure if we met before or we had another video. Anyway, I’m very glad to meet you both of you and for the invitation. I’m a Greek lawyer. I’m a lawyer more than 10 years in Greece and we have a law firm in Greece. That is more than 10 years. from the beginning of our establishing of the law firm in Greece, we have been engaging mostly with real estate and

very much also with golden visa program. I’m not sure if this program exists in Italy or other countries but because we used to work very much with foreigners also from third countries who invest in Greece. So our main focus is in real estate financial business and golden visa. This is one of the biggest fields that we focus on. we are doing another other other cases also like litigation or some kind of legal advice and other kind of

things. But we have much focus on the financial investment and golden visa and real estate generally from from Greeks but also from any kind of other nationals. Thank you very much Vanos and thank you for joining today. So I’m going to start with our first question.

So the discussion is around real estate transactions and investment structures. So the first question I’m going to pose is regarding deal structuring and capital deployment. How are investors currently structuring real estate deals and what legal factors are shaping capital deployment and exit strategies?

So, we’ll start with you Venza. Well, the situation in in in real estate deals is is not so defined because as everybody knows the the deal can create can create influence about the structure of the transaction. But if we want to speak about the traditional methods to to conduct and realize a deal of this kind, you can choice between two two options. One is the share deal and the other one is the the asset deal. The asset deal for a long time in Italy was the privileged

way to to have a deal in in real estate because there were a lot of issues regarding taxation and for a lot of times it was preferable to acquire the single asset than to acquire a corporate vehicle that holds the asset. Now the situation is changing and there are some situations and is depending also by the the the type of the investors that are involved in this kind of transaction that prefer to to buy a company or to realize the operation the deal with for example a

closed end real estate fund. So it it change considerably the the structure of of the operations. And this reflects the type of the of the investors reflects only also the the type and the times of the way out. for for example, if you have a private investor that is with the good wealth and decide to acquire a a real estate residential of of the kind of called asset trophy, it is difficult that he decide to sell in in very few years. But as everybody

know if the the deal the same deal is conducted and closed by an institutional investor he has a perspective of of his sale that is limited to few years more or less five seven years three years. It depends on the return to the investment. It changes completely the type of the kind of the deal and also the the structure of the transactions and the agreements that are related to.

>> Thank you for outlining that so clearly. Stanos, >> I think more or less we have common things to say with Mr. Vicento. the kind of investment that somebody is choosing to do in Greece also depends on the specific persons or entities portfolio goals. if we are talking about a Greek person or legal person or a person who is outside of Greece and for example is looking for a golden visa or something that is more attractive to this person or entity. the the

special thing with Greece I think is that because we had a huge crisis that you may be being informed of that before around 10 to 15 years and at that time the prices of the properties were really in the bottom like let’s say in a few years or like in 10 years the prices of the properties generally speaking in Greece have been like even two three or four times more than it used to be due to that very deep crisis we had. So

the the profile for investors is different from time to time and from nationality to nationality and from what anybody is expecting. For example, we had local or other investors who were investing in small or big properties. for example some of them were investing in a huge number of small properties because they were and they are cheap relatively to other countries especially in the European Union. So we have this kind of investors who can buy a huge

quantity of properties and rent it or renovate and then sell back and do this kind of business which seems to be very profitable in Greece during the last years. So we have many people and many companies who are investing in this kind of properties whether they are secondhand like old properties which is under renovation because Greece used to and especially the capital Athens used to have a huge construction back 50 or 60 years before. This means that we have a huge

quantity of old properties and old constructions that right now need some kind of renovation and they are back in the market. of course we have foreign investors and they are in very big numbers from anywhere in the world from Middle East from China from USA from anywhere in the world who want to invest their money in a safe zone. because Greece is considered to be like a safe zone of course other European countries I guess and they

invest the money in the real estate whether for just depositing the money here or do they sell after a few years and of course we have the golden visa which has changed the structure very much during the last years. It used to be more flexible and more attractive because the investors could buy any kind of property. Right now we have different kind of zones for the golden visa. And the basic category is the commercial properties and buildings or the listed ones, the

historical buildings that the investors take and they change the use of them. So they transform these kind of properties and buildings from commercial or from offices to residential. And this is eligible for the golden visa starting from €250,000.

So it’s still a cheap investment that combines the Greek golden visa resident permit with an investment of their money in Greece. of course we have like funds or huge companies that invest in real estate regarding the tourist business in Greece because the tourist business in Greece is one of the most profitable ones. This year we expect for another year more than 30 million tourists from all over the world. while Greece had only a population of 10 million people. So you

can imagine that it is a very huge profit and a huge investment for the Greek standards. So we have a very many different kind of of investment choices in Greece and every investment has legal matters that need to be examined. Of course, buying a property is different than buying a hotel or buying a whole company that has a complex of of matters to examine. So, we are talking about different things that every time need to

be examined. >> Thank you. You make some interesting points. all right, gentlemen. We’re going to move onto the second question that being asset management and value optimization. So what legal issues arise throughout the life cycle of a real estate asset particularly in leasing redevelopment and value enhancement and >> well regarding this matter it it depends u on the nature and the type of assets and also the contractual relationship governing all all the relationship regarding the the life of of the investment. If you

want to say in this way to to to to be very very very clear if you have listened of course you could take attention to the matters regarding maintenance tax issues and environmental issues because you have no problem about the property.

But on the other side, if you are the landlord, you have also a great problems of responsibility about about the asset. And if you have a tenant, you have to create the conditions to have a good relationship and to minimize the risks in the relationship with the tenant.

Because if the tenant doesn’t pay in a very easy way to to express you have a great problem. Especially if you have a deal with an investors that is a financial or institutional investors a closer than fund that in reality decide to to make the investment because is waiting to obtain a financial result. So the the the the very important matter is first of all to make a great and very good assessment about the conditions of the deal including the nature the type of the asset, the jurisdiction and

the law that are governing the situation about the the real estate generally speaking and also in development Another very important factor to be considered is the the lifetime that and the time frame to obtain all the permits and authorizations to create the conditions to build or to renew the building. for example, is is very profitable to to to create the conditions to have a deal in a in a called brownfield, for example.

Brownfield is is is an area that needs a lot of intervention to create the conditions to rebuild to destroy the the previous building and build a new building or to create the conditions that are optimal in about environmental issues to create a developing project. A project in development in this case is is very very attractive but there is a great risk depending on the time to receive the the the permits and authorization to work on the area. So if you fails in this kind of provisions you you have a

very big problems because probably your deal is is off completely and is off market. So in this kind of situations is very important a previous assessment of this kind of of of factors. The other the other matter very important is another assessment very important too regarding the costs for square meters to build or to renew the building.

These costs that are everything part of a a big formula that must creates the conditions to be a sum of the costs are the first step. As you know to make a good evaluation about the return of the investment in development in real estate and is the first very important step. Everything is m must be produced in very accurate and compliant to reality agreements.

And it depends also on the type of the counterparty that you have in front. for example, a closed end fund implies a very structured transaction with a lot of representation and warranties with a lot for example is crow account to create the condition to minimize the risk for the investor in this kind of operation in development.

So every every time you you must consider fundamentally this kind of aspect the asset the location of the aspect of the asset including the jurisdiction and the applicable law to it. the counterparty, potential, ideal or real, the types of representational warranties that a deal of this kind can implies.

And if you have a leasing or a renting or or a situation in which you must manage a relationship with a tenant, generally speaking, the possibility to minimize the risk in relationship with the tenant to maintain a good relationship with with him because is fundamental in this kind of structured transactions.

Thank you for sharing Spanos. During the life cycle of a real estate asset regarding on what exactly the owner and the investor is going to do with the property there are different kind of legal matters at any time they need to be we need to focus on and they need to be let’s say deal with to deal with for example when we have a lease agreement it is very important to focus on many different things like the duration of the lease agreement.

how much increase every year the lease the amount will have. in the commercial lease agreements we need to focus also on who will pay a relevant tax that exists because many times it’s not clear if the owner or the tenant is going to pay this kind of tax. there are many things that need we need to be careful about like who will use the property or the the ownership. For example, it will be one person, many persons. It will be

one person or a legal entity because many times the tenants use the property or maybe they want to sublist the property or use it for another way rather than the one that the initial lease was done for. And of course if the tenant is not complying with paying fully or paying on time or with any other kind of obligations like paying the utility bills, the common building expenses or any other kind of things then in many

occasions we need to u as lawyers we need to protect our clients if the our clients are the owners of the property and come into negotiation or if needed taking the tenants to the courts in order to keep our clients rights safe and in the best way. on the other party of course if we represent a tenant we need to advise a tenant about his rights and also his obligations and there is always some kind of

let’s say deal that we need to reach between the parties about redevelopment many times the owners or the investors do this kind of business as we said before for example they can buy an old building or they can buy a lot in which they want to build some kind of property whether it is residential. Most of the times it is residential because especially in Athens there is residential crisis so there are not many kind of apartments especially renovated

or new ones. So the investors that want to do redevelopment need to take care of many different factors like for example if the plot or the region in which they want to reconstruct is eligible for what they want to do.

there are also specific engineer requirements for what exactly you can build, what type of building you can have, what will be the height, what will be the specific size and square meters of the properties. You need to take care of having parking spaces in the construction you are doing. Think in most of the cases you are obliged to make parking spaces because inside the city and especially the city center there’s not space for free parking. you need to take care of taxation

issues accountant issues. you need to be very careful about how you pay the construction, how you do this kind of business because it can have risks for for the person that we represent for the investor usually and in every step they need to advise their lawyer and also their accountant and also the engineer work is very important in this kind of business. as far as we talk about value enhancement. So let’s say when the prices are getting higher or the investor is doing a good

business or is find finding a a very good bargain let’s say in some place of course they can do the kind of resell of or reconstruction that will have a very good profit for them. They need to be careful about legal aspects that we said before and they also need to take care of taxation issue because normally they need to have a company which will be established in Greece and will make this kind of business like buy

properties or buy plots and reconstruct or construct new buildings and then make the resell or make the rental agreement for these kind of properties. All of these need specific handling especially on the legal part and on the taxation part because if they do without taking care of these kind of details and aspects maybe they are they find in their way some kind of problems for example to be forced to pay higher taxes than they even expected or they find some engineer or legal

problem that they could not predict when they start. So generally speaking, they need to have a law a law a law firm, a lawyer in on their side, an accountant and absolutely an engineer to help them with their reconstruction or the kind of business they want to do in Greece.

>> Make some interesting points. Thank you so much. We’re going to move on to question number three being financing and transactional complexity. So how are financing structures and lender requirements affecting transaction dynamics and risk allocation and >> well well this is a a very important matter every every time when when someone decide to to structure a deal in in in real estate because as everybody knows it’s very important before starting to have enough finance to to realize the operation, to create the conditions for the transaction. And it’s

really really clear that the access to the credit is a fundamental specific topic that everybody must consider in in in in this field. for example is is well known that the the trend of the interest rates can create great influence in the in the developing the operations and in development of the real estate market because if you have a restrictions in the access to the credit the market has a great great problem in in a very short time as as a lot of times is happened already. So, the

the quality of the r the lender consequently create the conditions to to understand if there are favorable conditions to have a deal to create the conditions to structure an operation to conduct to a deal. For example, is is really clear that if you have negotiations with a traditional bank only, you will have an approach very traditional and very conservative and is very focused on the quality of the financial warranties that the investor can put on the table. If you have a relationship with or negotiations with a private investor investor,

you can have a counterparty that could be more flexible. At the at the other end, if you have negotiations with a private investor but an institutional investor, you can have both the situations. You can have a very conservative approach because they must minimize the risk because they must warrant a very good return to the investment to their investors.

But you can have access also to types of way of finance operations that are more innovative and not usual. Sometimes it depends also on the markets where you are located for it is evident is is already known from a lot of times that if you have negotiations about the credit with Latin area you can have an approach more traditional with your finan financial layer. If you are in Anglo-Saxons countries, you could have more innovative approach to the same kind of operations that you are proposing to be financed.

So the quality of the lender and the type of the lender is is very important. But in every time is fundamental. It it could be obvious but sometimes it isn’t that is the quality of the operations of the that you propose of the transaction and the quality of the investor that makes the difference.

>> Thank you. Spanos from a Greek point of view. >> yeah. basically in my point of view this is not a very simple kind of question regarding the great real estate matters and business because if talking about how we can have a lending agreement for our clients or our investors to take loans and use this kind of loans in order to reinvest to the Greek real estate market. there are some kind of requirements that are usually asked from the lender

which is usually bank institutions. in most of the cases the lender or the bank institution as we said in most of the cases will usually ask for guarantees in order to be able to finance the in the potential investor. in most of the cases they will ask for some kind of property for a mortgage or in some cases they even ask for sorry for for having a a very good profile in the bank. for example, if an

investor wants to take a loan from the bank but he never had a a history of of investment or of having already some kind of funds in the bank or the if they cannot prove that they already have a business in Greece or even in other countries maybe it’s very difficult for the investors to be financed. So during the last years because as we said in the beginning in Greece we used to have a very deep financial crisis but right now the things are much better

than even than we expected. So during the last years we have seen that the banks can finance some projects even if the related persons are for example foreigners or they don’t have a profile already in the bank institution or generally in Greece under some circumstances like to u write a mortgage to the properties or to to let them keep some money to the bank and some other kind of things. Of course, generally speaking, if we move from the simple thing of buying

a property to to another level like finance a hotel business or finance a very big company that already has a big portfolio or that is international company or this kind of thing. the possibility is also and also the amount of funds that can been loaned is much bigger than in the first case. generally speaking the banks in Greece and the other institutions provide financial support. but the investors must have a very clear

picture of what they are signing and what they are doing when they take this kind of support because in many occasions if they cannot pay off slowly the amount that they are financed with maybe they had problems like mortgage in the property. We have seen this in Greece very much especially a few years before when there was a huge amount of properties that were in the were taken in the auction from the funds and bank institutions and

some of them were taken to the auction for much lower value than they really had if they were taken out to the market. So there is a structure for financing but it usually requires to have some specific requirements and to be able to prove that the investor can be reliable or the investor has already some kind of similar business in Greece or in other place so that the institution that provides the financial support can be safe and can

cooperate well with the borrower. So approximately this is how it works in Greece. there are possibilities but there are also restrictions that we need to take care of and inform our clients and the potential investors. >> Thank you Senorus. We’re going to move on to question number four being around sustainability and ESG considerations.

So how are ESG and sustainability requirements influencing real estate investment and what challenges do they present? Enenza from a Italian perspective. >> This this is a a very actual question because in the in the last years we registered a increasing of the interest about sustainability and ESG matters.

And this reflects also in the requirements of the big deals because some some years ago, very few years ago, there was a must if you have a a a good proof to to have sustainability in in accounting in in in building a a real estate asset. you could have a a a more evaluation than the others. Now the situation is completely changed. Is obvious that if you want to create the conditions where to structure a very good operations, you must prove that complies with

sustainability matters and ESG. there is there is a very a very important part in the in this kind of matters that is completely present in the agreements in these kind of deals. very important buildings or also medium medium size. requires that the investor requires that you must prove to have the conditions to obtain or to have obtained the lead gold or platinum or bream certifications that as you know are very important certification about environmental and sustainability matters. If you haven’t you are in in

a very bad conditions because you are off market before to complete the building because no one in in this field and in the in the in the public of the very important close ident funds, financial investors or professional investors wants to see your operation in Italy.

is obvious that you must produce this kind of certification and that you respect all the most important items about ESG and sustainability. and now this is this is the trend that is that is constant in in this field or every time you you can find this in in the agreements and is not a surprise like some some years ago.

>> Thank you Venenza for sharing that perspective. spanners, >> sustainability and the ESG requirements are something that in Greece are used to change slowly, but during the last years we have new requirements and generally speaking the Greek government according also to the EU regulations and consultations they are thinking about proceeding with even more conditions during During the years we have many kind different of changes. One very important especially for investments that are near the sea or that in the mountains or near

the forests because from geographic aspect Greece is full of everywhere you have a sea you know we are surrounded by the sea and also we have mountains. So we we have to face some issues like for example how much distance you need to have from the beach and the sea generally or if you can invest or build and construct something on the mountain let’s say where maybe there is a forest or something that must be protected. So generally speaking in Greece for big investments

there is some kind of need to take some special license from environmental eligibility. if you cannot have that some kind of hotels or some kind of businesses cannot be even created. This is not something new. we have this many years but during the last 10 or 20 years there are more restrictions on these issues and this is something that influences the big investments that may happen I’m sorry some sometime in Greece because you need this kind of u of

authorizations and your plan your business plan to be accepted in order to proceed with investment so this is very important also for small kind of investments. This is also important because when you make a contract for buying a lot or buying a property that is let’s say somewhere in a zone that has some kind of restrictions, you need to have engineer reports or certificates and that kind of license to prove that you are not you are not

inside a forest region or you are not very close to the sea. and these kind of things. so this is mainly of course about let’s say the countryside or the islands or where some local investments are done. for big cities like Athens, we have other kind of conditions. For example, as we said before, right now the new constructions need to have specific licenses. They need to be built with a specific way. For example, after

some huge earthquake issues we had like 20 or 30 years before, there are new strict rules in this kind of matter. So for example, the new constructions must be with a specific earthquake regulation. So they are built in a specific way that can protect this kind of buildings. You also have some restrictions for the quality of of the construction that for example the kind of elements that the constructor need to need to use. it must be of specific type. They cannot

buy the cheapest ones or the ones that are used in other countries that they don’t have this kind of regulations. also for older properties of course there is some energy efficient certificates that are provided for any kind of building and apartment in Greece and this specified specific energy quality let’s say of this property and with latest regulations within a few years maybe they give a deadline after four or five years most of the properties will need to be

upgraded in this kind of environmental energy efficiency. this will be will need to be done also for old kind of constructions and this is a matter that creates like a kind of problem for many people because as we said in Greece we have plenty of old constructions and buildings. so probably many of them will need to be renovated and be done with new facilities. also as EU programs also in Greece there are programs that help

people and provide some kind of financial support in order to renovate the property and to make it more energy efficient. these kind of programs exist and are supported from the European Union they called ESPAC in Greece and you can have a a financial support that can reach even 60 or 70% or something like that if you have specific financial requirements if you are under the standards of the government. also as we said before we have

foreign investments especially for the golden vita that right now can only do the restoration and renovation of the listed historical buildings or the renovation of commercial and professional apartments and buildings into residential. So this is another measure of the Greek policy in order to help and to reconstruct many of the old properties of apartments that there are in Greece. So generally speaking whether we are talking about new constructions or big investments or even old apartments there are specific requirements and in the future we are

hearing about more measures that may be taken. For example, in Greece, we have a very big percentage of all the apartments that are currently closed. That means they are not exploited somehow. They are not rented. So, it’s a problem for the Greek society and also for the government because they are not provided for renting. So we have as we said a a problem with finding apartments and for the people there is this kind of problem during the last years also with the increase of the

rents. So probably there will be measures also for the reopening and the renovation of these old and closed apartments that are not in the market right now. >> Thank you. interesting points you make. we’re going to move on to our last question number five. Digitalization and innovation in real estate. So, what role are prop tech and digital tools playing in real estate transactions and investment decisions?

this this opens a great a great perspective about discussing this these matters because it’s is very actual and the technology and AI tools are present more and more in our reality and also in in all the the professionals reality.

Real estate is not exempt from from this phenomenon and we are viewing an increasing of these instruments and tools in the daybyday operational activity. we we have a lot of examples in in the real estate management and the creations of contexts or the structuring of deals. for example, you you can see also in TV a lot of times that in in in some in some serals or programs, you you see that the agent shows to the potential clients the rendering of of the flat that are

realized with a tools in in digital in digital way that uses artificial intelligence. This is this is very easier way to use this kind of tools. But there are a lot of algorithms that for example can create the conditions to find the ideal potential buyer or seller in a real estate transaction or the the most important influence of the systems of automatizations or automations like in Italy is called domotica. the use and linking of the the single instruments that can create a dialogue with the house to create the

conditions to furnish services. For example, air conditioning in remote by a remote control when you are outside. And the other very important topic that must be underlined is that you can use or you could use some of these instruments, digital instruments to see the simulations of the potential results of your transactions.

You you have the the the ancient business plan that we we we uses with uses to to to to create using Excel or others now is integrated or substituted completely by this this new digital instruments. In this kind of of of scenery we have of course a lot of criticity.

One of this is obviously the reliability of the data that you can receive. And how can you be sure that the your provider is a very good provider and is compliant with the law. for example, in complying in privacy law or in respect of the correct and right use of your personal data.

how or how much you can support a a a a form of digitalization that is completely automatic and this is based on statistic data in evaluating the profitability of a deal or not. how is permitted and is obviously it is different from country from a country to the other countries. how can I use this without in French law?

You you you know for example that also in a in a legal office we can use these instruments but we have a very strict rule of conducts. We can’t create the conditions to to ask to a a digital tool of artificial intelligence to make the work instead of a lawyer. And this is the same situation that you can see in in all the economic and professional fields. So is very important this this use and this increasing of the use of these kind of tools but is more

important to regulate in a very efficient way to protect the users and the com and the customers that can believe that you made for example a very deep exams of the situations. But if you are not compliant with the law and with your own conducts, you are you may also prompt and ask how is the situation? This is the real danger dangerous situation now.

And now everybody are working to create the conditions to put some very efficient rules to have useful returns from these kind of tools that are obviously useful and create conditions to save a lot of time and sometimes to save money because you you can do a a work that requires two hours in 2 minutes but what is the cost to use it? Thank you Venenza Spanos. In Greece, we have some kind of improvement in this kind of field which is very important because you know

that digitalization generally speaking is very important for the transparency and to make the deals and the transaction easier and more transparent to everybody for us and for the potential investor and also the sellers in many kind of cases. some examples of this kind of digitalization that we have in Greece which is very important things is for example before a few years the tax payment and the tax clearance in order to make an investment or buy a property or

generally speaking proceed to this kind of investment was done in written with papers that you needed to provide to the tax office and some kind of officer would take these papers and would examine after a few weeks or even after a few months depending on the workload of the specific tax office.

Right now all of this thing is done digitally by the intervention of a notary public which plays a very important role in Greece when signing a contract or making a a deal that has to do with the real estate. so by the intervention of the not republic and with uploading all the information into a digital tax system you can have the tax clearance for your investment and the purchase of a property or any kind of property in Greece in a few

minutes. at the same time you provide all the information you have the tax clearance you can provide you can proceed with paying the relevant taxes and you can proceed with the final deal and signature of the contract. This is one of the examples that have changed during the last five to six years approximately. another very important example of the digitalization that has been input in Greece during the last years is about the land registry or cadastral system that we have in Greece. all the properties in

Greece are registered in specific land registration offices and inside systems. there is a huge process during the last 20 to 25 years all of this system for all Greece to be digitalized. This is in the final step right now and most of the regions of the country including Athens region has been digitalized. So all of the properties or almost almost all of the properties of the county right now are digitally in a cadastral system and where the lawyers have specific

access with some kind of passwords that they have because they are lawyers and can have this access and most of the properties right now we can check and conduct due diligence reports or at least for most of the things that we are interested and we need to check for a property. We can do this online. This is a huge step for digitalization and it’s going to be finished in the next years but for let’s say around 80 % of the property information we

can have it online. So this and some kind some other kind of digitalization measures for example for investors of golden visa right now we can apply their applications for the golden visa online we cannot do this we don’t do this anymore to the immigration office like we did like six years before approximately when we needed to provide all the documentation in printing files and provide to them and and wait in lines and these kind of things. Right now we can submit all the

documents online. so generally speaking in grace digitalization is still in the process but it has made some very important steps like the ones that I told you and this had helped all the parties like the lawyers the investors and even the government offices because they don’t have to do so many things as before and this has helped a lot with the speed of the process also and this makes the investors a bit more confident. Of course there are still many problems

that u need to be faced and of course bureaucracy is one of the biggest problems in Greece even now but these steps are right now into force. These steps have already been done and we are happy with these kind of processes that make our lives better and more efficient for us and for in the investors that want to have a better and more transparent and quicker way to invest their money increase for now. So, it’s still in the process but it’s in

a good in a good way right now. >> Thank you, Spanner. Thank you both so much for your time today, for sharing your perspectives and giving such good insights. Before we close today, is there anything else that you would like to bring up or any discussion that you would like to have between each other?

We almost at our hour already. but if there’s anything further that either of you would like to add. Well, in in in a few words, I want to thank you for for this opportunity and the possibility to share with you and the colleague the my point of view that is unnecessarily limited to my practice area that is the fundamental big deals with with investors and with I wealth management.

individuals or companies. But I I I can say to to to close our our meeting that as you know, Italy now is leaving a very interesting situation in in increasing the market of real estate also for fiscal for individuals that want to invest in Italy and want to reside here. So we have the the the very classical locations like Milano or Rome or the the city of arts that are leaving a very interesting increasing on the market and also in in in very fine touristic places we we can

register this kind of interest. of course also like the other the other countries of the Leighton area, we have a a a a good big problem a a quite big problem with bureaucracy but also in in digital digitalization of services. So we are trying to improve this situation.

This is very difficult because you you must fight with with a great form of of thinking about these kind of sectors. But the situation is improving. We we we are hoping that the the general situations in the world can can improve.

So we can have more stability and better conditions to to create the possibility for each others to invest in in the respective countries. Thank you for your attention. >> Okay. Also, thanks very much for the invitation and the possibility to have this kind of conversation with Mr.

Vinceno and you and hope that this can make some kind of answering some kind of questions that some potential clients or investors may have in the future. So we will be very happy if you can share our video and our answers with more persons that maybe share some kind of insecurities or questions that may be answered through this. also I’m very optimistic for the future of the real estate business in Greece and generally speaking in the Mediterranean region. I

know that this is one of the places that many people of the world would like to live generally speaking. So there there will always be a bright future for our countries and the real estate business. So I sense that any kind of person or investor that wants to relocate here or make an investment here choose it but do it carefully with specific ways and with the support of a law firm and generally speaking a team that can support the investor and help them

make this safe and look good and find good options and bargains and have a very good option to invest in Greece and in the other countries like Italy. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you both so much. Enjoy the rest of your day and I look forward to seeing you both again in the future. Bye.